tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post3795381116181938778..comments2024-03-24T21:42:17.025-04:00Comments on Loose Threads: <small>Yet Another Costuming Blog</small>: A Handbook of Viking Women's DressCathy Raymondhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04580681386443534011noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-29115684452030778262012-05-28T22:34:35.240-04:002012-05-28T22:34:35.240-04:00All I have is the booklet with the name "Dark...All I have is the booklet with the name "Dark Ages Charitable Trust" but it does seem to be them.Cathy Raymondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04580681386443534011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-61419049387444038612012-05-27T08:05:17.390-04:002012-05-27T08:05:17.390-04:00It's not these folks is it? http://www.darkage...It's not these folks is it? http://www.darkagestrust.org.uk/Pumpkinseedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04038724513229222738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-57851526763945194402012-02-26T14:48:44.160-05:002012-02-26T14:48:44.160-05:00The "contrasting" facing style is, I sup...The "contrasting" facing style is, I suppose, a type of facing, but it's clear from the illustration in the pamphlet that they mean the kind that's placed inside the garment. <br /><br />I personally suspect that the whole "contrasting facing on the outside of the neck" may come from someone's deduction from the Bayeux Tapestry, which appears to show such tunics.Cathy Raymondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04580681386443534011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-47179767690387889712012-02-26T05:55:57.948-05:002012-02-26T05:55:57.948-05:00Ah! For some reason, I was thinking of the contras...Ah! For some reason, I was thinking of the contrasting facing on the outside of the neck, like you see being worn by re-enactors. (Can't find any photos online, but I've spent the weekend at a camping event and it seems to be a common decoration.) :)Pearlhttp://pearl.livejournal.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-80029249339323655322012-02-17T13:59:48.442-05:002012-02-17T13:59:48.442-05:00I'm not sure, Carolyn. But yesterday I was ex...I'm not sure, Carolyn. But yesterday I was experimenting with some software that blocks one's Internet activities from snooping software, and that might have something to do with it. <br /><br />Anyway, in the lost comment, you mentioned King Tut's tunic but noted that the neckline is finished with ornamental bands applied to the right side of the shirt, not a "facing" applied to the inside. Pearl provided me with a link to a picture of a different grave find that is finished in much the same way. As you correctly pointed out, that type of garment is not evidence for the use of a "facing" in the modern sense by the ancient Egyptians.Cathy Raymondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04580681386443534011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-3840367848852076592012-02-17T13:47:01.569-05:002012-02-17T13:47:01.569-05:00I made a comment but it seems to have vanished aft...I made a comment but it seems to have vanished aftef Blogger showed it as "published." Any idea why?Carolyn Priest-Dormanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12221326034301943690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-11316429741080322082012-02-16T18:18:14.553-05:002012-02-16T18:18:14.553-05:00The tunic of Tutankhamun has a keyhole neck reinfo...The tunic of Tutankhamun has a keyhole neck reinforced with applied bands in the shape of an ankh. There's a photo here.<br /><br />threadsofhistory.blogspot.com/2009/08/hunters-and-gatherers.html<br /><br />But a facing, strictu sensu? Vogelsang-Eastwood doesn't mention any in her _Ancient Pharaonic Clothing_ chapter on the bag tunics. Mostly, she says, neck slits are are rolled and whipped.<br /><br />I wonder if the writer was thinking about the Viborg shirt?Carolyn Priest-Dormanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12221326034301943690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-4942485482358741432012-02-15T10:54:08.991-05:002012-02-15T10:54:08.991-05:00I am not saying that I trust it at all. I am hopi...I am not saying that I trust it at all. I am hoping that checking into some of these statements may lead me to genuine information that I don't have that has been misinterpreted.Cathy Raymondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04580681386443534011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-56974765149857553622012-02-15T10:52:04.690-05:002012-02-15T10:52:04.690-05:00Ingaborg: The Dark Ages Charitable Trust appears ...Ingaborg: The Dark Ages Charitable Trust appears to be based in Australia. The version of the pamphlet I first saw was originally sold in the British Isles. I have no reason to believe that the current seller knows for certain who wrote it, let alone what the provenance of all of the statements in it may be. I believe it used to be sold in England by a gentleman trading as The Petty Chapman, but he didn't have a website, which is why I bought a Swedish-language copy of it originally in the first place.Cathy Raymondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04580681386443534011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-43499002518263872052012-02-15T08:22:35.821-05:002012-02-15T08:22:35.821-05:00Have you tried asking the company politely if they...Have you tried asking the company politely if they can provide you with references for those items?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-39603398887692119202012-02-15T08:18:46.902-05:002012-02-15T08:18:46.902-05:00If it's the pamphlet I'm thinking of, then...If it's the pamphlet I'm thinking of, then I wouldn't trust it an inch. I couldn't find any evidence for most of the designs, and the text on at least one page said "I saw a re-enactor wearing this" as the source.<br /><br />People I know who tried their Thorsberg trouser pattern a few years ago said it completely didn't work.<br /><br />It's a shame, because it's nicely produced, but since it seems to be "whatever some re-enactors were wearing in the 1990s" it's not something I'd recommend.<br /><br />The only vertical pleats I know of are at the *front* of the apron-dress! And no, I don't know of any evidence for the two-towels interpretation. I heard a rumour that it came from a book which made an error in their drawing, but I've never seen that book so it's just a rumour to me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-69173740853663138962012-02-14T23:49:22.587-05:002012-02-14T23:49:22.587-05:00It's probably more pertinent to ask "what...It's probably more pertinent to ask "what was doing the rounds when the pamphlet was written?"<br /><br />That's an excellent question, but one to which I do not know the answer. I don't even know when the pamphlet was first *published.* The version of the pamphlet that I have from the Dark Ages Charitable Trust has no publication date, and I know that it was sold in at least one other format for years before now. I don't think the Swedish language version had a publication date either. All I know is that the most recent sources cited in the bibliography that have dates listed or for which I can locate dates based on ISBN information date to 1993. I have no idea what the current trends were in Viking age reenactment in Great Britain (or anywhere, for that matter) where back then.Cathy Raymondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04580681386443534011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-24221198512983791462012-02-14T22:55:54.085-05:002012-02-14T22:55:54.085-05:00It's probably more pertinent to ask "what...It's probably more pertinent to ask "what was doing the rounds <i>when the pamphlet was written</i>?", as my impression from looking at Russian-language message boards is that at the moment the open-fronted style fastened together with a 'shawl' brooch is the predominant one.Pearlhttp://pearl.livejournal.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-24201060029632040162012-02-14T20:18:52.623-05:002012-02-14T20:18:52.623-05:00I suppose it might, but the "tabard-like laye...I suppose it might, but the "tabard-like layer" worn in Russia was worn without any brooches at all, tortoise or otherwise. The drawing that accompanied the statement showed A-shaped tea towels hanging from loops over the shoulders. <br /><br />I just wondered whether there were any theories going the rounds outside the US involving the "tea towel" apron dress.Cathy Raymondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04580681386443534011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-21807053697049788572012-02-14T20:16:06.064-05:002012-02-14T20:16:06.064-05:00I have written about the "two tea towels"...<i>I have written about the "two tea towels" type of reconstructed Viking apron dress here. The pamphlet suggests that this design originated "late in the Viking period and in the Rus-lands to the east."</i><br /><br />Could it (the idea, I mean) come from the zanaveska/zapona tabard-like layer worn by unmarried Rus maidens? <br /><br />eg. http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/wardrobe.htmlPearlhttp://pearl.livejournal.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-89704150772283779322012-02-14T19:35:25.601-05:002012-02-14T19:35:25.601-05:00I just took at better look at the larger photo of ...I just took at better look at the larger photo of the tunic neckline, and it looks to me as though the round edge was folded to the front and the trim sewn to the fold with whipstitching. However, I agree that there's still room for debate on that point, I also think that it would be impossible to resolve the issue conclusively without a look at the inside of the tunic (or commentary from a trustworthy person who has had such a look).Cathy Raymondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04580681386443534011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-45641971635612295442012-02-14T19:27:47.022-05:002012-02-14T19:27:47.022-05:00Thanks! that's exactly the kind of detail I wa...Thanks! that's exactly the kind of detail I was hoping to get.<br /><br />So far as I know, the main way to finish edges in the 8th-12th c CE depended on the function of the edge, but was more like "rolled hems and whipstitching" than anything else, at least for underwear. I'm thinking of the St. Louis shirt in particular.Cathy Raymondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04580681386443534011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-59395487806796372392012-02-14T18:58:14.175-05:002012-02-14T18:58:14.175-05:00"[t]he faced keyhole is a style going back ev...<i>"[t]he faced keyhole is a style going back even to Ancient Egypt."</i><br /><br />AFAIK, the main way to finish edges in Ancient Egypt was rolled hems and whipstitching.<br /><br />But he might be thinking of the tunic from tomb TT8 (of Kha and Meryt: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TT8)<br /><br />Photos here:<br />http://xy2.org/lenka/TurinKha.html<br />and<br />http://www.flickr.com/photos/menesje/5162190977/in/set-72157600066084316<br /><br />But without knowing how the neck was constructed, it's hard to say if it is a true facing, or if the neckline was finished and the bands were appliqued on for decoration instead of seam finishing.Pearlhttp://pearl.livejournal.comnoreply@blogger.com