tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post1430608210548296517..comments2024-03-24T21:42:17.025-04:00Comments on Loose Threads: <small>Yet Another Costuming Blog</small>: Thinking About Female Images In Viking ArtCathy Raymondhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04580681386443534011noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-3701101066979265602017-06-23T22:59:27.056-04:002017-06-23T22:59:27.056-04:00The picture above, which is Deborah Lane, not me, ...The picture above, which is Deborah Lane, not me, shows her wearing a single-panel apron over her "apron dress". Ravenpen, I don't know what you mean by asking why she's "wearing an apron" over her apron, since despite the name an "apron dress" is a sleeveless overdress, not an apron. The Finnish find at Eura, which I referred to in my post, shows definite physical evidence that such an apron was worn over a peplos type of overdress. Deborah's wearing such an apron with her Viking garb is speculation only.Cathy Raymondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04580681386443534011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-83145511637528392482017-06-23T22:54:41.853-04:002017-06-23T22:54:41.853-04:00On the subject of belt-wearing, I don't know w...On the subject of belt-wearing, I don't know what you mean by a "two-piece apron", since you said you're not referring there to an apron dress. I agree that the two narrow cloths connected at the top by only straps (referred to by some as a "tea towel" apron dress) would be unwearable without either a belt or lacing down the sides, but I don't know if that's what you mean. Cathy Raymondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04580681386443534011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-75120678538878872212017-06-23T22:51:38.397-04:002017-06-23T22:51:38.397-04:00Hi, ravenpen! Thanks for visiting.
Can you refer...Hi, ravenpen! Thanks for visiting.<br /><br />Can you refer us to a source for the statement that a parent could force a child to diet, and spouses could to the same with each other, under Viking law? I've never heard that before. <br /><br />Cathy Raymondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04580681386443534011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-63398755450433776732017-06-23T04:37:44.742-04:002017-06-23T04:37:44.742-04:00Your woman chieftain needs to get a grip, and do s...Your woman chieftain needs to get a grip, and do some proper research. There are plenty of archeological finds that disagree with your chieftain, as well as BASIC logic. You are working over an open fire with an in belted apron. It's going to go into the fire isn't it. How to stop your wife from being a walking torch? Give her a belt. <br /><br />Message for your cheftain<br /><br />It's not rocket scienceAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07609808607315534875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-40232709371451969862017-06-23T04:32:33.172-04:002017-06-23T04:32:33.172-04:00As to whether women wore belts, try cooking over a...As to whether women wore belts, try cooking over an open fire with a standard two piece apron (not an apron dress), without it ending up in the fire.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07609808607315534875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-23771619418125612182017-06-23T04:30:26.270-04:002017-06-23T04:30:26.270-04:00Vikingmaiden. In response to your comment that not...Vikingmaiden. In response to your comment that not all viking women were skinny. May I suggest that you have a close look at viking family law. A parent could put a child on a forced diet. A husband could do same with a wife, and vice versa. There were no fat vikings. If a family member started putting on the pounds, there were laws in place to deal with the problem.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07609808607315534875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-83227025215645739712017-06-23T04:22:44.044-04:002017-06-23T04:22:44.044-04:00Why are you wearing an apron over your apronWhy are you wearing an apron over your apronAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07609808607315534875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-47224971000345400112014-03-20T23:54:51.921-04:002014-03-20T23:54:51.921-04:00Always glad to be of assistance!Always glad to be of assistance!Cathy Raymondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04580681386443534011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-46661774096050824012014-03-20T20:12:00.476-04:002014-03-20T20:12:00.476-04:00Thanks so much I am doing my first Viking kit and ...Thanks so much I am doing my first Viking kit and so appreciate the info...I have a wonderful tablet wovven belt so I think I will try this as my first sewing project. It makes a lot of sense to me that these aprons are plausible. Great Article!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-1480273590126683902013-05-21T12:28:19.567-04:002013-05-21T12:28:19.567-04:00If you're reenacting with a group, it usually ...If you're reenacting with a group, it usually doesn't work real well to go against the ideas of the group (right or wrong). However, on the subject of Viking women and belts, you may want to take a look at this site before you push the argument further: <br /><br />http://www.medieval-baltic.us/vikbuckle.html <br /><br />Good luck!Cathy Raymondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04580681386443534011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-6453017718725363222013-05-21T12:00:14.182-04:002013-05-21T12:00:14.182-04:00hi i dont know how else to contact you but i do vi...hi i dont know how else to contact you but i do viking reenactment and have been told by my woman chieftan that i as a woman cant have a leather belt. I am the wife of a byzantine rus viking helpppppppppppppppppp pleaseAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-83044486998229229262012-05-17T21:04:53.787-04:002012-05-17T21:04:53.787-04:00Hi! Welcome, Katlin.
I imagine that typical Viki...Hi! Welcome, Katlin.<br /><br />I imagine that typical Viking chores (such as beating the weft upward on a warp-weighted loom) left Viking women much more muscular than many of us are. What kind of notebook did your grandma keep? I'm curious.Cathy Raymondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04580681386443534011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-17397131242727303852012-05-17T19:12:02.841-04:002012-05-17T19:12:02.841-04:00A real viking women in the photo, nothing ponsy. T...A real viking women in the photo, nothing ponsy. They wern't all skinny blond and dressed in leather as some would have us believe. My grandma left a notebook that is very helpful in many ways, Regards, Katlin.vikingmaidenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17403848014605454895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-1714253879796593742009-12-07T00:48:21.291-05:002009-12-07T00:48:21.291-05:00However, the article on the Uig find clearly shows...However, the article on the Uig find clearly shows a buckle, and the design of the buckle matches the strap end depicted.<br /><br /><i>But, I was trying to point out the reference to Geijer, where it seems there are Birka graves with strap ends but no buckle. Which is different to the usual buckle-and-strap-end Hiberno-Norse pattern. Of course, the question then, is if there are pairs of strap-ends, or just one per grave....</i><br /><br />For purposes of this post, I was looking at the issue this way:<br /><br />*Buckle plus one matching strap end=likely leather belt (as you say, rare in Hiberno-Norse finds).<br />* Two matching strap-ends. That would be consistent with Deborah's reconstruction. However, a leather belt could also be done that way.<br />* One strap end, only. That tells us nothing, because it could mean so many things. It could mean there was a buckle, or a second strap end, that was robbed in antiquity. Or it could mean that the strap end was being used as an ornament in some other way than its original use as a strap end.<br /><br />I was speculating that any textile belt (sprang, tablet-woven, what have you) could have been worn with an apron, and would not necessarily leave evidence in the archaeological record. This has come to matter more to me since I think the type of apron found at Eura, and speculated upon in my post, would more likely be worn with a textile belt.<br /><br />Unfortunately, without archaeological evidence there's no way to confirm that Viking Age Scandinavian women wore aprons. Although some of the images suggest the presence of an apron, they are abstract enough that it's difficult to rely upon them as "proof" of the existence of any particular garment.Cathy Raymondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04580681386443534011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-34069481098702054902009-12-06T18:30:18.387-05:002009-12-06T18:30:18.387-05:00The Uig find seems to be a little vague in it'...The Uig find seems to be a little vague in it's terminology, as it says 'strap ends' when it really seems to mean 'buckle and strap end.'<br /><br />But, I was trying to point out the reference to Geijer, where it seems there are Birka graves with strap ends but no buckle. Which is different to the usual buckle-and-strap-end Hiberno-Norse pattern. Of course, the question then, is if there are pairs of strap-ends, or just one per grave (like <a href="http://www.birkatraders.com/main/item.php?item_id=31" rel="nofollow">this</a> Birka find).<br /><br />Oh, and don't forget the <a href="http://pearl.livejournal.com/154259.html" rel="nofollow">sprang fragments</a> that have been reconstructed as belts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-42346916404101311892009-12-05T20:39:03.608-05:002009-12-05T20:39:03.608-05:00I know about the Uig find (in fact, I will be comm...I know about the Uig find (in fact, I will be commenting about another artifact discussed in the article you provided the URL for...real soon now). I read that article as having one buckle and one strap end--not two strap ends without a buckle. That's all I was trying to say in my post.<br /><br />Thanks for the link to the Duczko book. I may try to track the book down, just so I can read the pages you cited in context.Cathy Raymondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04580681386443534011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-21394200913162026092009-12-05T19:01:26.164-05:002009-12-05T19:01:26.164-05:00I don't know of any women's graves in the ...<i>I don't know of any women's graves in the Viking Age where two belt ends but no buckle have been found.</i><br /><br />http://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/catalogue/adsdata/PSAS_2002/pdf/vol_117/117_149_174.pdf<br />(A Viking Burial from Kneep, Uig, Isle of Lewis)<br /><br />page 23 of the PDF quotes Geijer about strap ends in Birka graves:<br /><br />Geijer notes the absence of any kind of belt in the Birka female assemblages despite the recovery of strap ends in some of the graves (Geijer. 1979,221).<br /><br />Another thing I found, that I can't double-check, is there is a tantalizing snippet from<br /><i>Viking Rus: studies on the presence of Scandinavians in Eastern Europe</i> By Wladyslaw Duczko<br />http://books.google.com.au/books?id=hEawXSP4AVwC&pg=PT177&lpg=PT177&dq=birka+strap+end+female&source=bl&ots=dtjCqKdBIJ&sig=mvI1HNhtYt4JWMB1fH8ifgrTJOQ&hl=en&ei=EO8aS52PE82TkAWHyIXfAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CBMQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=strap%20end&f=false<br /><br />I'm not sure if either of those links are describing <i>pairs</i> of strap ends, but there certainly seem to be graves with strap ends but no buckle.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-25366775030974472912009-11-30T22:22:00.865-05:002009-11-30T22:22:00.865-05:00Deborah, I don't know anything about apron wea...Deborah, I don't know anything about apron wearing in 16th century Venice (I can only recall one portrait of a wealthy woman wearing an apron, but I'm sure I haven't seen all that many period portraits). However, I remember that there was a fashion in the late 17th century for noblewomen to wear aprons--albeit delicate aprons made of expensive lace instead of utilitarian linen. <br /><br />So your theory about 16th century Venetian women and aprons may well be provable! Good luck!Cathy Raymondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04580681386443534011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-1497494386669613432009-11-30T04:55:46.677-05:002009-11-30T04:55:46.677-05:00Not quite in the vein of the Viking Dress .... I s...Not quite in the vein of the Viking Dress .... I suspect that in C16 Venetian culture the apron became a symbol and a disguise. That being Courtesans wearing them to look more like the good wives of Venice and thus passing themslevs off in a simple disguies. This is only a theory at the moment. I am sure there is a thesis to be written about aprons some time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-48890916737691677472009-11-29T19:04:58.405-05:002009-11-29T19:04:58.405-05:00I am not surprised by the idea of symbolism in apr...I am not surprised by the idea of symbolism in apron wearing--but for some reason it's been assumed that the Viking Age Scandinavians didn't wear them. (The artwork makes it pretty clear that the Anglo-Saxons didn't, and I think the same is true for period Franks, but the outlying nations where Christianity came late tend to be a different story). <br /><br />Thanks for the cites; I'll have to look for Welters in particular. <br /><br />By the way, Penelope Walton thinks that the peplos may have functioned as a fertility marker for the women in 5th-6th century England--she discusses it in <i>Cloth and Clothing in Anglo-Saxon England</i>.Cathy Raymondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04580681386443534011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-64118060284944186292009-11-29T17:54:16.393-05:002009-11-29T17:54:16.393-05:00There might also be some symbolism in apron wearin...There might also be some symbolism in apron wearing too, and although I've seen it discussed for Balts and Finns, I haven't seen anything about Scandinavia proper, except for the Bronze age string skirts. (Usually described fertility or adulthood markers.)<br /><br />eg. Welters, Linda [ed] "Folk dress in Europe and Anatolia" (Oxford: Berg, 1999) has a few articles.<br /><br />and Jaana Riikonen, "Iron age aprons from southwest Finland" in Mäntylä, S. (ed.), <i>Rituals and relations. Studies on society and material culture of the Baltic Finns.</i> (Helsinki: Annales Academiæ Scientiarum Fennicæ, 2005) 31-72.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com