tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post2660620185923801507..comments2024-03-18T15:01:08.204-04:00Comments on Loose Threads: <small>Yet Another Costuming Blog</small>: Greek Hairnet QuestionsCathy Raymondhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04580681386443534011noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-61069048950049017242015-06-05T00:52:29.198-04:002015-06-05T00:52:29.198-04:00Two observations about Stephens's use of a spr...Two observations about Stephens's use of a sprang net: 1) Her suggested technique (bind the hair with a bodkin and remove it through the mesh) is based upon the idea that the sprang will have a sufficiently open mesh to remove the bodkin through. That can be, but need not be, the case; sprang can make a nearly solid fabric, as some of the Katoen Natie collection caps show. 2) Some of the caps/nets? seen on ancient Greek pottery clearly show strings tied OVER the cap/net, which further refutes the idea that ancient Greek women wore such caps or nets with their hair loose inside.Cathy Raymondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04580681386443534011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-53146262749580191382015-05-16T18:02:26.792-04:002015-05-16T18:02:26.792-04:00Agi: I can't see from the photographs on your...Agi: I can't see from the photographs on your website how you finished your net, but it looks good to me! Thanks for sharing them with us. Cathy Raymondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04580681386443534011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-53148548774203088632015-05-15T10:56:38.729-04:002015-05-15T10:56:38.729-04:00...with a more than poor finishing of the middle r......with a more than poor finishing of the middle row I have to add :-) I did another one recently from silk, which I will link in this article probably next week. Agihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04576094535326071582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-67715284893347869912015-05-15T10:54:28.611-04:002015-05-15T10:54:28.611-04:00For my greek woman, I made a hairnet in sprang tec...For my greek woman, I made a hairnet in sprang technique with a woven edge last year http://hetairoi.de/en/blog/haarnetz/ I also linked some interesting pictures and an article about ancient sprang. Agihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04576094535326071582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-24548030421965164962015-05-15T10:52:17.305-04:002015-05-15T10:52:17.305-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Agihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04576094535326071582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-43303538151213895022015-05-15T00:04:54.565-04:002015-05-15T00:04:54.565-04:00Hmm. It strikes me that tying off the warp as sho...Hmm. It strikes me that tying off the warp as shown in this video wouldn't be the most secure way to finish the sprang. If the knot came undone, the whole net would unravel. That alone leads me to think the Greeks probably didn't do it that way.Stella Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05469996244394603024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-22779212406467605092015-05-09T14:54:33.987-04:002015-05-09T14:54:33.987-04:00Oops. Posted the wrong links in my first reply to...Oops. Posted the wrong links in my first reply to Panth. The first one should have been: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/511440101410519507/<br /><br />The second one should have been: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/511440101410505282/<br /><br />Sorry about that!Cathy Raymondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04580681386443534011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-22390414775651448202015-05-09T14:50:19.449-04:002015-05-09T14:50:19.449-04:00Snoods or nets also tend to look terrible if worn ...Snoods or nets also tend to look terrible if worn over unbound hair unless the net fits tightly enough to the head-hair combination.<br /><br />I also agree with you that the kind of coarse, abundant hair we see on Stephens's model could well defeat the efforts of a hairnet alone to contain it. (You can tie the drawstring as tightly as you like, but without something else to grip it I suspect that the net would tend to slip backward over time.) <br /><br />I see why Stephens did her style as hair loose in the net; she was going for the kind of shape you see on this pot: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pdupFOwVT14eCNXlTw5VlnASIgVBJCz4CdJlqZ-8iw8/edit#heading=h.fg5nxbz0matn However, I suspect that the actual hairnets used were either: 1) more tightly fitted over the woman's hair, or 2) worn over already bound hair, or 3) both. It's also possible that the drawstring itself was often long enough to draw back over the head and be tied around it, in addition to being tied at the nape; not the string in this image: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/511440101410505282/ As we saw in vase images and recreations of the wrapped (both band and cloth headwrap) styles, the same shape will result if the hair is abundant enough.Cathy Raymondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04580681386443534011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-352707606188683532015-05-09T13:54:01.701-04:002015-05-09T13:54:01.701-04:00Jenkins and Williams suggest a method for making t...Jenkins and Williams suggest a method for making the middle section into a tail (it involves folding the finished sprang textile over, I believe, and thus makes one net instead of two, though your method sounds simpler to me).Cathy Raymondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04580681386443534011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-32578250337905729252015-05-09T13:02:54.257-04:002015-05-09T13:02:54.257-04:00I also question that the hair would be worn uncont...I also question that the hair would be worn uncontained within the hairnet. Most people I know who try wearing snoods with unbound hair end up with terrible tangles unless their hair is shorter than shoulder-length. I suspect sprang, with its unfixed net structure (as opposed to a knitted or crochetted snood) would be liable to create even worse tangles if worn for more than a video-length. I suspect the hair was bound/put up underneath the hairnet (and probably in a rather more secure style than the twist thing she does her / in her previous Greek video - I notice her models often have a rather stiff-necked pose when displaying the finished style and the twist thing, in particular, I suspect would not actually stay up long if one were doing anything more strenuous than posing - even the motion of brisk walking would be liable to bring it down).Miriamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07941566213672427040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-60437584776159296242015-05-09T12:59:16.748-04:002015-05-09T12:59:16.748-04:00Agreed about the stump bit. Even if you don't ...Agreed about the stump bit. Even if you don't do the crochet-esque finish in the middle to prevent ravelling, you can just as easily weave a single weft across to get the same effect. In either case, a big tie-off and an ugly stump (that looks nothing like the hairnet images) is not necessary.Miriamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07941566213672427040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-59292948916362552092015-05-09T09:57:27.887-04:002015-05-09T09:57:27.887-04:00Thanks for the tassel explanation, and the Google ...Thanks for the tassel explanation, and the Google docs link! I look forward to reviewing your research. Cathy Raymondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04580681386443534011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-33973494600107324872015-05-09T09:55:37.205-04:002015-05-09T09:55:37.205-04:00Actually, Blogger *is* showing you as opusanglican...Actually, Blogger *is* showing you as opusanglicanum, so it has finally worked. Welcome to the blog! <br /><br />My hair is a lot finer than it used to be, so I could do with some artificial volume also. Thanks for the feedback!Cathy Raymondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04580681386443534011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-69249371408851726492015-05-09T06:23:08.550-04:002015-05-09T06:23:08.550-04:00I think if you were going to go with the stump met...I think if you were going to go with the stump method it would make more sense to put it on the inside = I say this as someone who has baby fine hair that wont grow to sufficient volume (If I twist my never been cut hair into a bun its so fine its goes from voluminous to the size of a walnut) to give the look seen on greek pots. to me the lump on the inside makes sense because for me personally it would become fake hair and add some body. btw, am opusanglicanum, not anonymous, but stupid blogger will never let me comment when I put my id inAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-30975908827431328782015-05-09T00:56:33.628-04:002015-05-09T00:56:33.628-04:00That's an interesting video! I've never se...That's an interesting video! I've never seen tradition of working sprang prone before; sprang looms pretty much uniformly are upright. I've also never seen it worked with hand movements like Stephens uses, much less with a hook.<br /><br />I've done a lot of research on this -- with my usual annotated bibliographies.<br /><br />https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pdupFOwVT14eCNXlTw5VlnASIgVBJCz4CdJlqZ-8iw8/edit#heading=h.fg5nxbz0matn<br /><br />A couple of years ago I created two (putatively) Hellenistic hairnets for SCA use. My husband and I have also made and used two simple sprang frames based on ancient Greek vase illustrations. One of my simmering projects is to try making a Greek sphendone (a sort of nape of neck hairnet/headband) on one of those looms.<br /><br />I've seen the sprang hairnets with tassel ends on display at the Met; it would be quite simple to set up a warp to make two such where the tassel ends constitute the middle section of the warp. The way the tassel end works is that the warp threads go from being worked individually to being worked in pairs, and then in groups of four, and so on until you decrease down to working your sprang using only a few bundles of threads. The result begins to resemble a fat flat braid. If you temporarily secure the warp and cut it off the loom, the places where the warp loops around the dowels become the drawstring casings and the center of the warp becomes the end of the tassel. Just cut it, tie a knot in it, and you've got something very like the vase illustrations.Carolyn Priest-Dormanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12221326034301943690noreply@blogger.com