tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post6598686397761161796..comments2024-03-24T21:42:17.025-04:00Comments on Loose Threads: <small>Yet Another Costuming Blog</small>: Omega Brooch MysteryCathy Raymondhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04580681386443534011noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-55804576915301668372012-04-15T17:17:09.528-04:002012-04-15T17:17:09.528-04:00Hi anyway! Welcome to my blog!
You make an intere...Hi anyway! Welcome to my blog!<br /><br />You make an interesting point and your guess is pretty close. One of my other commenters discovered additional information that appears to settle the point. The brooch type is Mordovian, and its use by women wearing Norse apron dresses likely is due to antiquities dealers characterizing the brooches as Viking. See my post <a href="http://cathyscostumeblog.blogspot.com/2009/10/omega-brooches-revisited.html" rel="nofollow">here</a> and the links in it for further details. <a href="http://cathyscostumeblog.blogspot.com/2010/09/omega-brooches-update.html" rel="nofollow">This post</a> also contains further links and information. See also the PDF available at <a href="http://www.medieval-baltic.us/baltic.html" rel="nofollow">this site</a>.Cathy Raymondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04580681386443534011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-24411319262212562222012-04-15T15:54:08.209-04:002012-04-15T15:54:08.209-04:00I'm aware that this is quite an old discussion...I'm aware that this is quite an old discussion at this point, but I stumbled across it while searching for information on Rus' mens' brooches and figured I might weigh in. The omega brooches were made by Finno-Uralic cultures - ie, not the Norse, Slavs or Balts, but rather Finns or Estonians. I am no expert on Finnish women's costume but the reconstructions I've seen seem similar overall those worn by Norse women, except that instead of the apron-dress a peplos was worn, similar to very early Anglo-Saxons or the ancient Greeks. (The Viking Answer Lady, who I am sure you're familiar with, has a link to a very nice handout on Finnish women's dress on her website.) Such a peplos could be secured very nicely with such a brooch, I would think, since there is a lot more fabric to hold in place than the slim straps of a Norse apron-dress.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-91122958151501120032009-09-30T19:50:24.049-04:002009-09-30T19:50:24.049-04:00Re: anonymous's comment: Thanks for the inform...Re: anonymous's comment: Thanks for the information. I figured Omega brooches (or penannulars in general) would not work well with apron dress straps. Now I don't need to get my own pair to confirm that. :-)Cathy Raymondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04580681386443534011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-39803971138521191212009-09-30T12:52:52.503-04:002009-09-30T12:52:52.503-04:00I don't have any archeological reference for t...I don't have any archeological reference for this, but a friend has a set she uses for a viking dress, and frankly- they don't work well for that purpose. The straps don't sit well in the pins, and unless you have some substantial bead strands hanging from the bottom, they don't lay very flat.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-32735034893972427822009-09-22T21:25:49.533-04:002009-09-22T21:25:49.533-04:00From the Google map of the area, Lake Ladoga doesn...<i>From the Google map of the area, Lake Ladoga doesn't look all that far from the modern Baltic nations.</i><br /><br />Indeed it doesn't--looks about 100-150 km to me. The interesting question, though, is how far it was from the Baltic area in terms of culture. Probably not too far for a fair amount of sharing--judging by the Baltic influences on Gotland, for example.Cathy Raymondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04580681386443534011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-40006107545682884412009-09-22T15:16:40.636-04:002009-09-22T15:16:40.636-04:00From the Google map of the area, Lake Ladoga doesn...From the <a href="http://maps.google.com/maps?q=61,31&ie=UTF8&ll=59.623325,28.432617&spn=12.239593,31.508789&z=5" rel="nofollow">Google map of the area</a>, Lake Ladoga doesn't look all that far from the modern Baltic nations. I don't think Lithuania or Poland/Lithuania (in any of its incarnations) extended that far east, but there may have been some trading going on. Or maybe the people in what is now Finland had similar jewelry.<br /><br />I will definitely keep my eyes open for anything else that could help!Patricia of Trakaihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10749588384988572343noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-36963752132882044812009-09-21T20:31:52.196-04:002009-09-21T20:31:52.196-04:00Re: Patricia's comment--
I think I see why y...Re: Patricia's comment--<br /><br />I think I see why you think the Omega brooch that RQP reproduces looks Baltic, and that one comes from the Lake Ladoga area--does that count as part of the Baltic region? All of the references to them name find locations somewhere inside of Russia, which would explain the lack of available information--most scholarship by Russian archaeologists gets published only in Russian, not in English.<br /><br />Thanks for reminding me of the arheo.lv page, but even having it translated, it doesn't really answer my questions, and the reconstructed costumes feature true penannular brooches, not Omega brooches, holding the necklines closed. <br /><br />Thanks again for your comments and links so far!Cathy Raymondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04580681386443534011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-28000836540694643972009-09-21T19:52:14.030-04:002009-09-21T19:52:14.030-04:00Re: pearl's last comment--I think that, bette...Re: pearl's last comment--I think that, better than e-mailing Sandy personally, I will post a query about omega brooches to the Norsefolk2 group. That likely will get his attention and may get me information from other list members also. (If that doesn't work, I'll try posting a query about omega brooches on the Slavic Interest Group list also.) Thanks.Cathy Raymondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04580681386443534011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-2320975153246547632009-09-21T14:55:16.502-04:002009-09-21T14:55:16.502-04:00To my eye, the Omega brooch on the Quiet Press sit...To my eye, the Omega brooch on the Quiet Press site looks like Baltic jewelry. Baltic peoples sometimes traded with Vikings and sometimes fought with them. And the Baltic women didn't wear Viking apron dresses, either. Details of their garb are sketchy, because very little cloth has survived in graves and early tribes weren't into illuminated manuscripts and sculpture. But here's one take on early Latvian clothing: http://www.arheo.lv/apgerbs/senais_apgerbs_lv.htm (sorry, you'll have to plug that into Google Translate). My guess is that the omega brooch might have pinned the chemise neckline closed.<br /><br />Also, the trapezoidal parts of the brooch look like the dangly things on the jewelry on this page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baltic_garb/<br /><br />I will keep on looking....Patricia of Trakaihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10749588384988572343noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-10375496736999361922009-09-21T00:23:55.164-04:002009-09-21T00:23:55.164-04:00I honestly know nothing about the context the broo...I honestly know nothing about the context the brooches are found in, just that they are very pretty-looking. :)<br /><br />You might have some luck if you e-mail Sandy on the <a href="http://www.frojel.com/_index.html" rel="nofollow">Frojel</a> website, since it's his personal 'museum' collection I saw it in.pearlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02162366096516710709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-31801210645037899572009-09-19T20:13:11.203-04:002009-09-19T20:13:11.203-04:00Thanks. That's useful information; the photos...Thanks. That's useful information; the photos I've seen of Omega brooches don't give good indications of scale, so I was not aware how small they are. <br /><br />Do you know anything about whether they have been found singly or in pairs?Cathy Raymondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04580681386443534011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2670213486548123819.post-31066182279430516072009-09-19T18:24:37.474-04:002009-09-19T18:24:37.474-04:00The originals I have seen in person are only big e...The originals I have seen in person are only big enough really to close the slit on a keyhole neckline. I'm not sure they would stand up to anything heavier.pearlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02162366096516710709noreply@blogger.com